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#	💭 Title	💬	👥	🙋 Last editor	🕒 (UTC)
1	Nagorno-Karabakh	7	4	RaffiKojian	2023-11-21 20:55
2	We are dangerously close to 100 million files--how should we celebrate?	17	12	Samwilson	2023-11-18 20:54
3	Expand 400 character limit for strings in Data namespace	14	6	Yann	2023-11-18 16:50
4	100,000,000 files	3	3	Yann	2023-11-18 16:43
5	Map needs fixing	2	2	HyperGaruda	2023-11-18 16:55
6	Alamy as an authority for PD statements	3	2	From Hill To Shore	2023-11-18 18:32
7	FOP subcats by cities	7	6	A.Savin	2023-11-22 13:21
8	Should this be deleted?	2	2	Jeff G.	2023-11-19 08:43
9	(Fake) Grass-covered tram tracks categories	6	3	Tuvalkin	2023-11-22 12:08
10	Category:Color photography	7	5	El Grafo	2023-11-20 09:17
11	"Category:Images by person/PERSON NAME"	4	2	Chinmayee Mishra	2023-11-22 19:09
12	Warning message for images transferred from Flickr marked as public domain	8	2	R Prazeres	2023-11-21 04:26
13	Photo challenge September results	2	2	Foeniz	2023-11-21 22:40
14	Should categories for extinct taxons begin with "†"?	10	7	El Grafo	2023-11-23 09:52
15	Arabic/Persian/Urdu and Chinese/Japanese help needed	2	2	RZuo	2023-11-23 09:50
16	Will commons become a depository of all movies？	26	10	Prosfilaes	2023-11-24 23:57
17	Template:PD-AR-Photo	1	1	Jmabel	2023-11-24 00:16
18	How can I get rid of parent Category:Tools in country X in the template of Category:Research institutes in country X?	3	2	JopkeB	2023-11-25 04:43
19	Osvaldo Guillermo Torrez Arisaca	1	1	RoySmith	2023-11-25 01:12
20	Change file extension	1	1	Σ	2023-11-25 01:33

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See also: Village pump/Proposals ■ Archive
When does PDART apply to textile works? (15 November 2023) Does this image contain "love hearts"? (17 August 2023) Overhaul of categories by period (5 December 2022) Version of Saudi flag to use (11 July 2022) Concern regarding revocability of KOGL licenses (22 December 2021) Should deleting content from your own talk page be forbidden? (11 November 2021) Revise the COM:FOP Sweden section (1 February 2021) Change technical name of LRs to license-reviewer from image-reviewer(2 November 2023) User talk:湯崩正海#Image Tagging File:青島ビール放尿動画事件.jpgとUser talk:湯崩正海#File:青島ビール放尿動画事件.jpgで議論しています。皆様のご意見を募集しています。是非、ご参加ください。(2 November 2023)
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November 10[edit]

Nagorno-Karabakh[edit]

See also Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/10#Nagorno-Karabakh_village_name_categories_all_being_changed_into_Azerbaijani.

We had a a pretty long discussion here about the categorization of village names in the area once known as Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (and later known interchangeably as the Republic of Karabakh/Artsakh) last month. Since Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed the area, there has been a lot of activity here in the sub to delete all of the Armenian category names of the settlements and replace them with Azeri names only. We have other areas where multiple names are used, and I think in this region it will be important to keep both names as well. In the case of many of the villages, they have (and continue) to be written about mainly using the Armenian names. We have examples of Catalon/Spanish names coexisting such as Category:Donostia-San Sebastián, old and new names coexisting, such as Constantinople and Istanbul (as totally separate categories), and I am okay with either solution, or with just having both an Armenian settlement name category and an Azeri one coexisting side by side for all the settlements of the former Nagorno-Karabakh region, and have them categorized into their regional categories as well. I know most of the users/world do not care so much about this region, but simply for the practical value of storing and finding information by users, both readers and uploaders of content, this solution is important, and considering there are alternate arrangements whenever it seems helpful, I see no reason why this solution wouldn't be quite helpful here. --RaffiKojian (talk) 04:44, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You're rehashing the same argument. In the previous thread, several users, including an admin, explained why it's impractical to have two or more separate names in a category title. We were close to reaching a reasonable agreement until you went back to your old stance of using multiple names in a single category title. Please stop wasting the community's time. — Golden ^talk 05:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's nice you consider this a waste of time, while spending so much of your time erasing all of the Armenian village names. But the fact is that here we have other solutions for special cases which accommodate multiple names, and others chimed into the conversation stating as much and sharing the opinion that they agree to keep the Armenian names, and you conveniently ignored that and then just dove back into the erasures. I believe there is a solution to be found that would help the majority of users working in these categories find things, which is the very reason for categorization, and I think it's to double-up on settlement name categories - one in Azerbaijani and one in Armenian transliteration. A simple, elegant solution that would serve users regardless which language they know the name of the settlement in. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:24, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello Golden, you are a native speaker of Azerbaijiani, the country who recently took the area by military force. As a Wikimedia user with no consensus backing your wished migration you may want to sit this one out, delegate that decision to the Commons community and freeze your categories moves. Seeing Azerbaijiani users press for renaming this early will be perceive as brutal, possibly nationalism bigoterie and online harassment. We have nothing to gain from such rush.

Same for RaffiKojian, I encourage you to take some distances with this topic. Hugo en résidence (talk) 17:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have not moved any category with an Armenian name to an Azerbaijani one since the first discussion where it was first contested. However, I still find your statement problematic. Being Azerbaijani or Armenian does not inherently make us unable to contribute constructively to topics about our own region. Asking Azerbaijanis and Armenians to distance themselves from a topic that is literally about their countries doesn't sit right with me. — Golden ^talk 18:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Two things to start:

I will echo Golden's statement that one's ability to speak a language (or one's own nationality) should not be used as a means by which to disregard someone's argument. If Golden's argument is bad, then explain why it's bad; don't go after the person for being born in a particular place.
With respect to delegate that decision to the Commons community, I don't see a reason why Golden should be excluded from these sorts of discussions. The user is no SPA; Golden has thousands of contributions here and has contributed (among other things) a ton of original images depicting land now controlled by Azerbaijan. These have even included images of Armenian Christian churches, including but not limited to:

I think that Golden may well have a reasonable interest in these sorts of categorization conversations if, based upon nothing else, the sorts of images the user uploads. Just as any user in good standing on Commons can participate in these sorts of categorization discussions, so too can Golden.

It does very much look like Golden stopped boldly moving category names after it was objected to. It's perfectly possible to nominate a set of categories for discussion if we want a broad, centralized discussion on what to do with these redirects. There's clearly still disagreement between users about how to handle this, so a structured and centralized discussion at the appropriate board would probably be a good thing going forward. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 04:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks, I will take the discussion there. By the way I also have added photos of Azeri sites such as the Mausoleum in Mamedbeyli and the Azeri cemetery in Tsar, and I have fully credited them to Azeris/Azerbaijan - without leaving them completely out of the names or descriptions (I don't deserve a prize for this, I'm just point it out here since it seems relevant). I think that Golden's massive recategorization of such a sensitive region without discussion, and then for example immediately renaming a category I just created with the reasoning that it "breaks consistency"... with the naming system he had just implemented, and then asking for consensus, never having asked for such a thing himself so far as I can tell, didn't seem especially right. But as I said, I'll take this discussion where you suggested. RaffiKojian (talk) 20:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 13[edit]

We are dangerously close to 100 million files--how should we celebrate?[edit]

I took a look in the archives and didn't see any discussion, so sorry if I missed it. We are very close to 100 million files and for those of us who don't understand how orders of magnitude work, this is the last "nice, round number" we'll hit for a long time. I propose that we should have some special designation on the front page for this and celebrate all of the hard work that everyone has put into making such a huge repository of free media. Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:39, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And ignore the persistent "quantity over quality" issues that our limited pool of editors haven't been able to even scratch the surface on correcting, some going back many years? As I pointed out recently, it was all spin when en.wp put all the emphasis on edit count instead of article count during the 20th anniversary, because 6 million articles is dick all to brag about when you look at it realistically.RadioKAOS (talk) 03:15, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As the saying goes, one mans junk is another mans treasure. Although there is a lot of low quality stuff on here that should really be dealt with somehow in the long-term. But 100 million files is still a huge accomplishment regardless. It would be cool if nothing else there was at least a special barnstar or something that could be given to whomever uploads the 100 millionth file. That's really my only suggestion though. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd worry that the lucky number would end up going to a file that's unsuitable for Commons (like a selfie or copyvio), boring (like a file in a batch import), or something that would be awkward to call out (like a company logo or an image of something unpleasant). Omphalographer (talk) 18:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The 100 millionth file will only be a guess, when taking into account the thousands of files deleted daily. So we can choose whatever suits the purpose. Yann (talk) 10:35, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes it is impossible to say what file is the number 100.000.000. The file with the id 100.000.000 exists since February 2021 File:1973 Gedenktag 2020 zum 9. November auf dem Platz Bornplatzsynagoge im Grindelviertel in Hamburg.jpg. I would suggest that we use this number to discuss a redesign of our main page. We should change the links in the "Highlights" section to actual galleries and also replace the "Content" section as the category links are not reasonable usable. GPSLeo (talk) 11:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds like a good idea. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I will add a "Woohoo!" and raise a container of my favorite beverage. A banner under the logo would be nice. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 04:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Idea : onboard 200 news admins, potentially diving from old admins without recorded blocks. That could help to clean up. Hugo en résidence (talk) 09:52, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

why dangerous? :D

also if you can, please leave a note at Commons talk:Commons Gazette when the number reaches 100mil. then i can include the news.--RZuo (talk) 12:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Special:Statistics now says 100.007.133 files. --Dannebrog Spy (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Woohoo! @RZuo, please take note. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 03:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

yeah. it's been 7009 days since the start. RZuo (talk) 09:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It seems we reached the 100 millionth file around 19:52 UTC^[1] (Is IA time UTC? I am not sure.). Did anyone try to locate a good candidate around that time? Yann (talk) 12:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comment On German wikipedia, they report that this image was the 100M'th. --A.Savin 18:16, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hmm. Not very sexy. One could find something better marketing-wise. ;o) And this is probably not in the public domain in USA. Yann (talk) 16:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That file has now been transcribed on French Wikisource: wikisource:fr:Livre:Recueil._"Sud"_de_Albert_Paluel-Marmont,_"Fanouche"_de_P._Vandenberghe_et_Guy_Rapp_-_btv1b10507456q_(11_of_30).jpg. Sam Wilson 20:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

↑ Web Archive

November 14[edit]

Expand 400 character limit for strings in Data namespace[edit]

I ran into a 400 character limit for strings in JSON files in the Data namespace. I need room for larger strings. More information at Help:Tabular Data#Data types. Can this character limit be increased? Heyzeuss (talk) 21:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Heyzeuss: One problem with having large character limits for strings in the Data namespace is that editors will potentially start including text that is copyrighted. Can you provide more information about your use case and why you need to include strings longer than 400 characters? Nosferattus (talk) 16:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm transcribing the table of contents for a book over at Wikisource. Each chapter in the table of contents has a description that is roughly paragraph-sized, and some of them exceed the 400 character limit. You're right about the copyright issue, but the editors at Wikisource are particular about what authors have been dead for 75-100 years, depending on jurisdiction. There is plenty of public domain text at Wikisource that could be utilized in the form of tabular data, that has strings far exceeding 400 characters. Heyzeuss (talk) 19:59, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would say that a TOC should never include such a large text. Just shorten it and include the original one on the page for the section text itself. The catalogs of libraries even shorten the title of books if they are to long. GPSLeo (talk) 20:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's true, but we're transcribing the text from the pages of old books, including the pages with tables of contents. In that situation, we can't truncate the chapter descriptions. Another thing is that they have lists of sub-sections in each chapter. There are other potential uses for long strings, like entries in old dictionaries and encyclopedias. Heyzeuss (talk) 10:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Heyzeuss: Thanks for providing more information. I'm afraid I don't understand, however, why any of these use cases would be in the Data namespace. The Data namespace is for tabular data (for creating graphs, tables, and maps), not transcription projects, which are better suited to the Page namespace. Can you elaborate on what you're trying to accomplish? Nosferattus (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One problem with transcribing a printed text is that each row in the table of contents has to be styled with css. This requires wrapping each row in a template, which is by itself work-intensive. We usually employ some level of automation with our text editors and spreadsheets, but this is clumsy and not ideal. At Wikisource, we format the text so that the e-books at look as much like their printed sources as possible. Tables of contents are also formatted so that each row has the same appearance on the page. The page numbers are also given hyperlinks. Each row has a chapter number, description, and page number. With this information, the editor will typically make a spreadsheet to ensure that each row is styled the same and also to ensure that each row has a hyperlink. Besides the transcribed table of contents, an auxiliary table of contents is also made to better accommodate digital devices. This is also typically produced on the editor's own local computer with ad-hoc scripting.

Another problem, aside from tables of contents, is the transclusion of transcribed text from the page namespace into the main namespace. Each page of a printed text is transcribed into a page in the page namespace. Each page from a chapter is then concatenated into a chapter in the main namespace. Each chapter is a wiki page in the main namespace. This concatenation is accomplished by adding a line of html to each chapter, with attributes that define a range of page numbers. Like "from=125 to=136". Have a look at an example. This information is usually retrieved by copying and pasting from a spreadsheet, line-by-line, for each chapter, which is slow, and also subject to copying-and-pasting errors. There are faster and more reliable ways to automate the task.

Wikisource has other kinds of texts that can benefit from more elegant transcription automation. There are dictionaries, thesauruses, encyclopedias, nature catalogs, like bird catalogs. Instead of copying and pasting from spreadsheets for these various tasks, a better solution would Lua modules and tabular data, right on Wikimedia servers.

Heyzeuss (talk) 18:09, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Heyzeuss: Ah, I understand now! You want to use the Data namespace as a DIY input interface for software that automates creating Wikisource content. While this is a pretty brilliant idea, it's not quite what the Data namespace was intended for. I remember a while back there was a proposal to create something like a Wikisource Wizard (maybe at the Community Wishlist Survey). I wonder if something like that would be a better solution. But of course that would require waiting on new software from the WMF, which I imagine you would prefer to avoid. I like your creative thinking, but I'm not convinced this would be an appropriate use of the Data namespace on Commons. Maybe others would disagree though. I also imagine you would eventually run up against other limitations, like the need for linebreaks and other special characters. While Wikitext is a pain, I still think it's the best solution for what you're doing. Plus, I can only imagine the frustration of the poor editor that wants to fix a typo in the table of contents only to spend half an hour tracking it down in this hypothetical system. Nosferattus (talk) 21:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've thought about other ways, like entering the entire JSON (or equivalent) as an argument in a TOC template. In that way, the editable content would be accessible to Joe Editor. The data could conceivably go on the index page. A version of the TOC is added there, anyway. If only that could be accessible to other parts of the system. Right now I'm trying to make a transclusion template where it looks up the page range from the chapter number in {{SUBPAGENAME}}. It's using a .tab file in Commons that doesn't have the long chapter descriptions. Heyzeuss (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Nosferattus: Page namespace on Commons is actually new to me, and I'm an admin. How is this intended to differ from main space / gallery space? - Jmabel ! talk 18:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was actually referring to the Page namespace on Wikisource. Nosferattus (talk) 21:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Nosferattus: Nevertheless, we have a couple of files in Page namespace on Commons, and I'm wondering whether that is intended or not. Page:Chessboard stones, Page:Modillons de l'église Saint-Pierre de Champagnolles. - Jmabel ! talk 01:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Page:" isn't a namespace on Commons; those pages just have names which start with "Page:". The two pages under that prefix both look out of place and should probably be deleted. Omphalographer (talk) 04:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I renamed them. Yann (talk) 16:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 17[edit]

100,000,000 files[edit]

Thank you to everyone. GMG ^talk 15:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No banner or celebration of any kind? Roquex Messages 14:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We need to find the 100 millionth file first. The current proposal is a bad idea (see above). Yann (talk) 16:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 18[edit]

Map needs fixing[edit]

Is anyone going to fix this map? It existed for 3 years in tact — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shekishek (talk • contribs) 06:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, just add a description that the file compares the early state with the borders of 2021, and nothing in the image needs to be fixed. --Enyavar (talk) 14:38, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Though I am not sure what Shekishek thinks needs fixing, I see a few points of improvement:

the world map inset has some weirdly shaped continents
that green box should probably just be a green outline instead of completely filled in
why are Lebanon and northeast Pakistan blue like the sea? --HyperGaruda (talk) 16:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alamy as an authority for PD statements[edit]

Do we need the text and link:

Classed by Alamy as a public domain image

on File:Edward Oxford tries to shoot Queen Victoria in 1840 by JR Jobbins.jpg, and similar on another image, or should it be removed from both?

If it is needed, should we not add it to all our other images which also have equivalents on Alamy? Or are these two images somehow unique in that requirement? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Courtesy ping @SchroCat: as the other involved editor. I've added further detail to the first image and then removed the Alamy link from both images. Both files have a clear justification for being in the Public Domain (though I doubt the claim that the second image wasn't published before 2003 - it names the original publisher in the bottom left corner). Adding another site's assessment about the file's status when the PD justification is so clear is redundant and will just confuse reusers about how trustworthy our assessments are when we don't refer to Alamy. From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For the second image, I have removed the incorrect claim of the image not being published before 2003. This is for 3 reasons. 1) This is a lithograph (as noted on the bottom right of the image) and lithography is a publication technique. 2) The image includes the publisher's identity and the lithographer is recorded as d:Q52506851. 3) Even if we assume the image had a single unique copy (no publication) in the 19th century, it was copied to microfilm and shared with the Library of Congress in the 1960s (making 1968 the last possible date of publication). From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 19[edit]

FOP subcats by cities[edit]

Concerning:

Is categorizing FOP cases by cities practical and optimal? We already accept FOP subcategories by landmarks like Category:Burj Khalifa-related deletion requests and Category:Danish FOP cases/Statue of the Little Mermaid (Copenhagen) because of usability of the subcategories to keep track of the date of undeletion – years after the architect or artist's death. This is not so for subcategories of cities. In my opinion, these are not practical because:

the FOP rules are from distinct copyright laws of countries or unrecognized territories (e.g. Taiwan, Crimea, Abkhazia); cities typically do not have their own copyright laws
not useful to track for future undeletion because the subcategories are not specific to one or two architects/artists
all case pages are ultimately categorized under "Category:Ukrainian FOP cases/deleted / kept / pending", making these three city-specific subcats redundant.

Ping the subcat creators @Butko and A1Cafel: for this matter. Ping also some of users who frequently visit or participate FOP discussions: @Ikan Kekek, Rosenzweig, Ox1997cow, MGA73, Jmabel, King of Hearts, P199, DarwIn, and Yann: . JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 03:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think we create subcat for Donetsk and Luhansk because Russia has the de facto control in these two oblasts. There may be a chance that these two oblasts follows the Russian copyright law instead of the Ukrainian copyright law, just like Crimea. Right now, these two oblasts is still using the Ukrainian copyright law. I have no objections in deleting these categories, regards. --A1Cafel (talk) 04:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think it good to make subcategories by cities if many deletion requests exists in FoP cases category. Ox1997cow (talk) 10:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ox1997cow too much subcategories, which already conceal the real total number of deletion requests that may be needed for some Wikimedians to make decisions or lobbying movements for FoP introduction. The quantity of deletion requests should encourage more Wikimedians to try to make efforts in FoP introduction. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 11:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There might be some use for the Donetsk / Luhansk categories, though I'm not sure how much. I don't see any use for the Kyiv category. --Rosenzweig τ 17:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

+1 to Rosenzweig. - Jmabel ! talk 19:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done Deleted the Kyiv subcat, moved the cases to Category:Ukrainian FOP cases. --A.Savin 13:21, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Should this be deleted?[edit]

This image and its extracted images appear to originate from a YouTube debate, and would not qualify as free/Creative Commons. It would be more appropriate if the screenshots of each individual were uploaded on Wikipedia as 'fair use', no? Zenomonoz (talk) 05:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Zenomonoz: I tagged it as such. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 08:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Fake) Grass-covered tram tracks categories[edit]

Should there be a new type of categorie? In hot sunny southern Spain it is not easy to maintain a good looking grass. But can these stil be considered a grass-covered tram track. I disaprove of these type of coverings (better use drough resistant plants), but this is not relevant.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Smiley.toerist: That's not real grass, for sure. It's either a green carpet or green painted concrete (or some other paving material). I don't think these categories are correct. Darwin ^Ahoy! 13:18, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Smiley.toerist Looking closely at the other pictures on Category:Grass-covered tram tracks in the Land of Valencia, which feature some real grass covered tracks, it's clear that in that one and in some others in the cat what is used is a synthetic green carpet mocking grass (artificial turf). They must be removed from the ones dealing with real grass. Eventually something like Category:Artificial turf-covered tram tracks can be used. Darwin ^Ahoy! 13:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The same thing happens with the tram tracks in Murcia.Smiley.toerist (talk) 23:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In Spain (and in other places with similar climate) grass is green in the Winter, and images showing it can be categorized under Category:Trams on grass-covered tram tracks. Images of the same locations in Summer months can be categorized under Category:Trams on tracks set in the dirt. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Heh, sorry, this is offtopic: I missed the part where it says «fake». -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Color photography[edit]

I notice a fair number of photos directly in this category. Surely we do not want to open that can of worms ("Oh, look, a color photograph! That make 39,456,851 of those!"). Perhaps move some good representative examples to a gallery page and make a policy the photographs do not belong directly in this category? - Jmabel ! talk 19:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just as Category:Photography is for media about photography itself, not for every photograph, Category:Color photography should be reserved for media about the process of color photography, not for all color photos. I've started removing some images from the category which clearly don't belong. Omphalographer (talk) 20:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Omphalographer, I fully agree with your approach. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 23:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's questionable anything in the category has to do with the "process" of color photography in the first place. "Processing" images maybe, but not the "process" of color photography and there's already better categories out there. For instance the RGB color model is a general thing related to image processing. Not photography per say. So it shouldn't be in Category:Color photography to begin with. Category:Chromatic aberration also happens with videos. So it shouldn't be in the category either. Same goes for, which is related to processing images in general, not just photographs. Really, there doesn't seem to be a point in the category to begin with if not to use it as a place to organize color photos. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:34, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are a couple of images in the category which are photos or diagrams of how color film is structured internally, like File:Subtractive color photography.svg and File:Dufay Color Matrix LS01284.jpg. Those seem to belong pretty squarely in this category, as do a couple of test photos like File:Fargeprøver (autochrome) (14784614693).jpg.

I agree that Category:RGB shouldn't be a subcategory of Category:Color photography; while they're vaguely related concepts, that's about as far as the connection goes. Omphalographer (talk) 01:02, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There's also Dufaycolor Film. So like the other things, a Dufay Color Matrix isn't confined purely to photography. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Color photographs would be the right place for that, in parallel to Category:Monochrome photographs/Category:Black and white photographs. There already is Category:Photographs taken on color films as a valid subcategory. I don't think it's a good idea to implicitly assume that unless specified otherwise, any given file is a digital color photograph, stored as a JPG, with an sRGB color profile, etc. - but that's how we've done it pretty much from the beginning and I suppose changing that now would be foolish. I think that's probably something that's better handled through SDC anyway (see also: Commons_talk:Structured_data#No_metadata_about_color_scheme) El Grafo (talk) 09:17, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 20[edit]

"Category:Images by person/PERSON NAME"[edit]

I'd appreciate getting some independent comments at Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/11/Category:Images by person/Maryana Iskander, because it turns out that User:Chinmayee Mishra has been creating several similarly named categories, so the issue there is presumably bigger than a single category. Thanks in advance for any attention. - Jmabel ! talk 06:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, Jmabel. First, thanks a lot for monitoring and picking it up. I was trying to club pictures of persons / users under one single category by the person's name / Username. I wasn't aware that this goes against the naming conventions or can create any issue for other categories. I appreciate you highlighting that. Please go ahead and delete the categories which you find violating the standards. Please feel free to share any other feedbacks / tips for more insights on this. --Chinmayee 11:32, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Chinmayee 08:09, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Chinmayee Mishra: Great, I'll do that then. By the way, you really ought to have a link back to your user page in your signature (and probably talk page as well), otherwise someone reading your posts doesn't know what account they came from without reading the page history. - Jmabel ! talk 20:09, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jmabel: Thanks for flagging it. --Chinmayee Mishra 19:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Warning message for images transferred from Flickr marked as public domain[edit]

Hi, I recently transferred a number of images from Flickr that are marked by their author (not me) as "public domain", using the Flickr-to-Commons tool. After transfer, FlickreviewR 2 bot marked them as lacking licensing information; see this example. This is the first time I've come across this. My rough understanding of this community decision is that Flickr files marked this way are indeed acceptable and that the appropriate license template should be Template:PDMark-owner. Am I correct? Should I be simply replacing the warning messages with that template? Thanks in advance for any clarifications. R Prazeres (talk) 20:32, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@R Prazeres: The mere fact that it is marked with the "PD mark" doesn't tell us on what basis it is public domain, so you need to pick a specific Commons template (and, yes, {{PDMark-owner}} is correct in this case). But we can't automate that: imagine if (for example) it had been a 19th-century photo of the same scene. - Jmabel ! talk 20:50, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ah ok, so the PD mark isn't specific enough at the source, but if I manually add {{PDMark-owner}} myself, then there's no further problem? (Just double-checking I'm not doing anything inappropriate.) R Prazeres (talk) 20:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've added the template in the meantime, assuming I didn't misunderstand anything (if I did, I can revert those edits). Thanks for the response. R Prazeres (talk) 21:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@R Prazeres: Actually, not quite right, and you shouldn't be reviewing your own upload (I think you are not a license reviewer -- correct me if I'm wrong -- and even those who are don't review their own uploads). I've fixed it for the one you linked above. If you list others you did this way, I can fix those, too (just give me a list). Next time, just leave these alone, and a license reviewer will get to them in good time. - Jmabel ! talk 23:42, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ah damn, my apologies. I will note that for the future. It was a mass transfer of 100+ files so it would take too long to list them here individually, but they can be found in my upload history: they are the uploads from 19:18, 20 November 2023 to 19:22, 20 November 2023. All the file names starting with the number "20230914".

If it's safer/simpler in the meantime, I can revert my edits, leaving the files to be reviewed later. Let me know what's best. Thanks again for taking time to respond. R Prazeres (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@R Prazeres: Reverting is probably best, and they'll eventually be done by the people who usually do this. Not something I usually do; I'd have been glad to take on a dozen or so, but 100+ should probably be left to people where this is their focus. - Jmabel ! talk 02:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alright, done. Cheers, R Prazeres (talk) 04:26, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 21[edit]

Photo challenge September results[edit]

**beach: Entries • Votes • Scores**
Rank	1	2	3
image
Title	Cabourg beach, France	Cabourg beach, France	Taken in Hovs Hallar which is a nature reserve on the Bjäre Peninsula in the county of Skåne, Sweden
Author	Ibex73	Ibex73	Pasi Mammela
Score	13	12	10

**composting: Entries • Votes • Scores**
Rank	1	2	3
image
Title	Close up view of compost	Компост та кури	Biogas tank, in the foreground green cuttings
Author	Niwrat	Любмир	Foeniz
Score	30	24	12

Congratulations to Ibex73,Pasi Mammela, Niwrat, Любмир and Foeniz. -- Jarekt (talk) 05:10, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for your congratulation Foeniz (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Should categories for extinct taxons begin with "†"?[edit]

Should categories for extinct taxons begin with "†"? I would think not, but four currently do:

Does anyone disagree? - Jmabel ! talk 19:15, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think they should not. It's not part of their name, I do not see the need to distinguish these from others as far as their identity, it's not readily apparent what that symbol is, and it's one more variable that interferes with ease of linking/consistency among naming. If this sort of identity is useful to have at all, then having it as a category is the way to go. DMacks (talk) 19:28, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would say definitely not. It is ugly for sorting and in many cases a species was considered as extinct but then a new populations is found. GPSLeo (talk) 19:29, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unless the extinct taxon was overwhelmingly Christian, I’m sure it’s inappropriate, even if found to be typographically acceptable. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The symbol is mainly German and is usually called a "death dagger". It does look rather like a cross, but it is not particularly Christian in its origin.

Anyway, it's pretty clear we have consensus here, and I will move these categories (I'll leave redirects for now). - Jmabel ! talk 16:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:†Streptochetus was empty, so I'm just deleting it. - Jmabel ! talk 16:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

+ of course Acacia is not extinct. Jeez. - Jmabel ! talk 16:13, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jmabel: It seems MILEPRI and Allforrous made these categories for fossils of Acacia etc. for brevity. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 16:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That somewhat explains it, but there's still no clear advantage over Category:Acacia fossils. They're not even useful as shortcuts/redirects for quick categorization via HotCat because virtually nobody will be able to type the dagger symbol on their keyboard. Just

Delete them all. El Grafo (talk) 09:52, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Definitely the names should not include "†", it is not part of the name. Sneeuwschaap (talk) 17:21, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 23[edit]

Arabic/Persian/Urdu and Chinese/Japanese help needed[edit]

Toward the bottom of https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UncategorizedCategories&limit=500&offset=2500 are a fair number of parentless categories with names in Chinese ideographs/Japanese Kanji, and a bit above that several in the Arabic alphabet. We need someone who can make sense of these to help with cleanup (hook into category tree, nominate for deletion, whatever makes most sense). I can't really take these on myself because I am effectively illiterate in the relevant writing systems (a tiny bit of Japanese, but not enough to be useful).

Also similar issues for smaller numbers of parentless categories in some other writing systems (Hangul, some Indic languages, etc.). If you read any script that is not used somewhere in Europe, you are likely to be able to help out with some tasks here that might otherwise languish indefinitely; please do have a look. - Jmabel ! talk 01:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

i will do some cjk ones.--RZuo (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Will commons become a depository of all movies？[edit]

two things are certain:

users have been uploading public domain movies to commons.
as time goes by, new movies enter pd every year.

as i see users discussing increasing file size limit, i wonder:

is commons planning to be a depository for all (or a LOT of) movies? what're the commons user community's views on this?
should commons become such a depository?
what's WMF's view on this?

--RZuo (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support Uploading all free materials to Commons provided that they have educational and/or historical value Юрий Д.К 11:47, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Info When interpreting movies, we can learn a lot about culture, and in case of older videos, history. First of all, older movies give us an idea how movies looked like and how they were recorded. Movies can give a hint to events (historical references) at a time when they were produced. This gives us an idea how people thought about events back then or how they were seen by them. Having several movies over the years, we can see how techniques of cinematography and other techniques changed over years. Sometimes, movie are subject to research. I think these points qualify to be educational, which is a condition to be uploaded to Commons. Culture is manifold and so are movies. Movies don't just record some scenes. Furthermore, the director puts many ideas into this, and this makes a movie special, unique, and often educational. And these point make movies worth to be conserved :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support Wikisource is transcribing those movies, and it would be nice to see cross-Wikisource translations of transcriptions. I don't see any reason to include books and photographs and paintings and not movies.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As a note, several pornographic films, like w:Behind the Green Door and w:Deep Throat are more well known and culturally important than the vast majority of films. The legalization of pornography is late enough that we won't get many films in the PD until the 2050s, at least.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please be cautious. A (full-length) movie is not like a photo or a painting, it's often a complex creative process that involves many people such as director, actors, cameraman, screenplay writer, and so on. We can only be sure the movie is PD if really all participated people meanwhile have been dead for >70 years. --A.Savin 22:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, it depends on the country. For example, Indian movies get into the public domain 60 years after publication. Yann (talk) 22:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@A.Savin not at all movies. For some movies like U.S. ones, those become public domain years after publication or first release (many after 95 years due to the copyright extension law by the late Rep. Sonny Bono). One great example is the Steamboat Willie, an animated theatrical short from 1928. It turned 95 years old this year, and will officially enter public domain around 2 months from now, provided that the attempts of Disney and their fellow stakeholders to lobby U.S. Congress for another U.S. copyright extension fail.

We actually should not just include movies in this discussion but also theatrical shorts (cartoons or any other shows) that were originally meant to be shown in movie theaters. Someone should list the public domain dates of Disney, Looney Tunes, and Tom and Jerry shorts. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 23:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK, however by default it's surely the same as for any other copyrighted work -- 70 years after creator's death. Thanks --A.Savin 23:52, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are many countries for which 70 p.m.a. is the law, but plenty where it is not. Obviously we take only what is clearly PD or free-licensed, as with any other media. - Jmabel ! talk 00:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no default; more than half the people in the world live in countries with less than life+70 terms, even not including the US. Moreover, according to w:List of countries' copyright lengths, many nations that normally have life+70 terms have 70 or even 50 years from publication for films. Even in countries with life+70 terms for films, I think the set of people who count as creators differs from country to country.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support Yes, as said above. Old movies have multiple educational values: history, culture, social, cinema technics, etc. Yann (talk) 22:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support as long as the movies themselves are in public domain both in the U.S. and the country of origin. Proper categorization should be taken into account. Treat movies just like any other audio-visual file that we currently have. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 22:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And, second in motion to inputs of Prototyperspective and @Юрий Д.К.. Only movies that are worth for educational and wholesome purpose can be shared here, not porn movies. The inclusion of only wholesome movie in terms of educational, historical, cultural, and other useful purpose should address some of concern on the server space ("trash" like porn movies just consume needless space that should be utilized by more wholesome movies). I think there should be some condition that only users with xxx user rights can upload movies or theatrical shorts. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:50, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@JWilz12345: I think that softcore videos like 1980-90-00s erotic films and porn films/movies with professional models also [will be] in scope. Obviously homemade porn videos clearly not for Commons likewise tons of dicks and exhibitionist photos of non-model people. Юрий Д.К 13:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Юрий Д.К. that's why I think it is best to implement the movie/theatrical short uploading rights to a specific group of users, like admins, sysops, image reviewers, and autopatrolled users (or those who really deserve some uploading rights). Obviously, users like new users and users with less than (n) contributions should not be allowed to upload such audio-visual works. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support Movies are for example useful regarding prior imagination, techniques, concerns, cultural viewpoints, predictions, art styles, and so on. Since some people may consider porn videos and porn movies to also be "Movies" and a set of decisions elsewhere on WMC seem like users here would like WMC to become a (non-amateur-) porn site, I think it's necessary to clarify that I don't think WMC is the right place for such media, of which there are many TBs, and do not support that. The Internet Archive also hosts many PD films – if file-size or server-load are an issue maybe it's worth considering whether it's possible that the content is on their servers but embedded here in a way that allows them to get categorized and used as if it was hosted on WMC. The value of movies in this context is similar to the value of other art which is also hosted on WMC. Documentaries may be of special value.

Prototyperspective (talk) 12:35, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

my concern wasnt so much about copyright. all copyright will terminate one day.

i'm more curious about plenty of things that need to be considered if commons really become the netflix or fmovies several decades from now. for example, storage is cheap so probably not a problem, but bandwidth and pressure on servers, if 100 million people are simultaneously streaming 1080p movies from commons. also, it would probably be difficult to set exclusion criteria, which means, although acclaimed movies would be hosted, the majority will be shitty b movies, as long as someone makes the effort to upload them. and the problem of movie ratings and parental control. etc.--RZuo (talk) 13:54, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is not a valid comparison. We will never host recent movies. All movies on Commons will always be decades old (probably at least 70 years), with a few exceptions (en:Night of the Living Dead). Yann (talk) 14:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

it's hard to estimate how many people watch old movies, but certainly plenty of people do. a magnitude of million or above is not that difficult, considering there will be 10+ billion people on earth.--RZuo (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think that such problems should be solved as soon as they appear. The problems about videos are obviously not ours, for example, a 1990 softcore film can be legally uploaded to Wikimedia Commons in 2111 (120-year rule). Юрий Д.К 14:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

i think 95 years after first publication is more common. that means, many Audrey Hepburn's movies will become available no later than 2050s; 1980s movies will become available in 2070s.--RZuo (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

also, publication+95y or creation+120y is only valid if us keeps both its own longer duration and rejection of the "rule of the shorter term".

bern convention only requires 50y after first showing or creation. hypothetically if us changes its laws towards the bern convention, commons will be able to host more recent movies pretty soon. RZuo (talk) 14:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

or if wmf and servers move to a country that recognises the rule of the shorter term. :) RZuo (talk) 14:29, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@RZuo server migration may become legally controversial, and will always be impossible to achieve. Note some past proposals to have Commons servers migrated to a country with FoP were thumbed down due to potential legal implications in linking and transcluding content (see Commons:Requests for comment/Non-US Freedom of Panorama under US copyright law). A similar forum tackled the same proposal but over URAA reasons (see Commons:Requests for comment/Commons Abroad and related ideas). It just ended up creating the so-called Wikilivres, the freer version of Commons that did not need to respect U.S. laws and was last hosted in New Zealand (that has 50 years p.m.a.), but is now practically a dead website as well as a dead free culture project (proofs: [1] and [2]). No further attempts to migrate Commons has been made after the 2012 URAA RfC discussion. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 16:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support Commons is a media repository, and so as long as the movies are freely licensed or public domain in the U.S. and the country of origin, we should host them. Obviously, we should be mindful of copyrighted modern scores of silent movies and new copyrighted title cards with public domain movies. Abzeronow (talk) 17:07, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 24[edit]

Template:PD-AR-Photo[edit]

User:Jeff G. and I recently revived a long-moribund discussion about the wording of this template at Template talk:PD-AR-Photo#Public domain in US. The two of us are in consensus on a wording, and I've pinged the people who had discussed it previously in hopes that the will agree with that proposal. Would anyone with an opinion please weigh in within seven days so that this discussion does not go stale again, and can be driven to a conclusion? Thanks. - Jmabel ! talk 00:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How can I get rid of parent Category:Tools in country X in the template of Category:Research institutes in country X?[edit]

The template {{topic in country|research institutes}} (Template:Topic in country) automatically generates some parent categories, one of them is Category:Tools in country X (see for instance Category:Research institutes in the Netherlands). But I think it is nonsense that a research institute is called a tool, so I would like remove that parent. How/where can I do so? JopkeB (talk) 06:02, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@JopkeB: This parent category seems to have been added by Joshbaumgartner in Special:Diff/820922910. If you want to remove it, you can edit Template:Topic by country/data to remove |parent3=tools from the line that begins |research institutes=. --bjh21 (talk) 12:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

User:bjh21: Thanks a lot for your research and answer. I'll first contact Josh before I change the template. JopkeB (talk) 04:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 25[edit]

Osvaldo Guillermo Torrez Arisaca[edit]

I suspect File:Osvaldo Guillermo Torrez Arisaca (Official Photo, 2014) Chamber of Deputies of Bolivia.png is incorrectly tagged as CC BY 2.0. It was downloaded from Flickr. The page there says it is CC BY 2.0, but it sure looks like it's a screen grab off a TV broadcast or something similar, which makes me doubt the copyright status. Could somebody who knows more about this stuff please take a look? This came up as part of a GA review on enwiki. RoySmith (talk) 01:12, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Change file extension[edit]

I want to turn File:Noam_Chomsky_portrait_2017_retouched.png into a jpg, how can I do that while preserving its upload/revision history? Σ (talk) 01:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Σ: I believe the only way you can do this is to download, create a JPEG in a tool such as GIMP, and then upload the JPEG to a new file page as a derivative version (linking the two with {{Derivative works}} / {{Derived from}} and otherwise copying the content of the original page; you will almost certainly want to use Special:Upload for this purpose rather than, for example, Special:UploadWizard. The JPEG's file page won't have the history, but the PNG's file page will retain that, and it can be found by anyone who is interested. - 06:22, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

[1] Web Archive

[1]

Commons:Village pump

Contents